Renee Lati, welcome to the
Advisory Board Insider podcast.

I'm glad you're here.

Thanks, Tom.

Ready to go?

Hello.

Hi.

Good morning.

Good

yes.

Thank you.

So, uh, you might have given this
question away, but where are you

specifically in the planet right now?

Where, where do I find
you in this conversation?

Well, trivia would tell you I'm on
the most isolated land mass in the

world, also known as Hawaii, and I'm
on the big island of Hawaii upcountry.

Got it.

So, your, in Hawaii, you work from Hawaii.

That's your headquarters.

That's where you base your operations

from

That is thanks to Covid or we, no one
says thanks to Covid, but as a result

of Covid I was stuck here with no one
playing a violin for that statement.

And I've been able to basically
work remotely ever since.

Wonderful.

So, let's begin with your morning
drink of choice, because that's

what we do on the podcast.

So, tell me about your
morning drink of choice.

What, what's your morning

drink?

Well, I'm holding my wonderful
little Hawaiian Starbucks mug and I

am drinking my local Kona blend, a
hundred percent Kona Coffee here from

the big island with a little soy milk.

And if I'm really wanting to
be adventurism in the morning,

I, I shave a little bit of our
local Hawaiian chocolate on top.

Wow.

And so do you do drip coffee?

Do you do pour over?

What's your, what's your brew mechanism?

What's your brew

it it goes on the night before it goes off
at 4:45 AM so that by the time I get up in

the morning, the whole house smells like

Oh, oh, and Kona is, the,
Kona is Hawaiian coffee.

But is there a specific brand
that you're, you're connected to?

all the local, all of them are
handpicked little pea berries or the

tiniest of the Kona or tiniest of the
coffee beans have to be handpicked.

And they're usually about
$21 a pound US dollar.

So it's not, it's, it's the labor of love.

So any of the local farmers that
picket, I'm sure they'll all shoot

me for me, saying it's the same,
but they're in the same genre of the

wonderful local Hawaiian Kona coffee.

And so you can get that it from
any number of different farmers.

And you just get what you get a, like the
local store or the, like a local farmer's

market.

yep.

Every Saturday is produce here in
Farmer's Market here in the little

town that I live in, which is Waimea or
Kamuela, depending on who, who you ask.

And there's always pounds of coffee there.

It's also in the.

Farmer's markets are in the local
grocery stores, but in addition, even

Costco has a local Hawaiian corner
where you can get local produce.

And of course when you have visitors
coming to see you, you take them to

what we call the cloud forest, which
is upcountry a little bit on the

island where the clouds come down.

It's perfect growing season
for the little coffee beans.

And then you get it right
from the farm themselves.

Got it.

So in your discussion about
your coffee, you mentioned 4 45.

So can you take me back and give me
a picture of how you start every day?

What's your average start day look like?

Well, it depends on who my clients are.

These days it's, I split my time between
Europe and AsiaPac Pacific, so yes, so 4

45 is when the coffee goes up, goes off.

So about 5 15, 5 30 I'm up.

And that's usually saying,
Good afternoon, good evening.

Goodnight to my colleagues in Europe.

And then kind of I have live on a
beautiful out in the country, feed

the dogs, feed the chickens, feed
the cats, and then get back to work.

Really with waking up with
the east coast or actually

mid-morning for the east coasters.

And then about midday, there's lull
while I wait for the Philippines,

India, all of that other part
of the world to come online.

And I tend to be the bridge.

If there's a company I'm working
with or advising with that has both

of those locations, I kind of in
the belly button of their world.

And so I kind of do the handoffs.

Interesting.

Well, very cool.

So thank you for, for sharing that.

So, before we talk about what the subject
of this podcast's about, I, I always like

to dig in and learn a bit more about you.

So, let's begin, if you're okay
with it in Steven's College and

it appears to be vet school.

So tell me what's happening in your life.

What's the plan?

Why are you at vet school?

Give me a sense of what's
happening in your life.

Okay, so that would be a hundred
years ago, or a thousand years ago,

is when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

And Renee wanted to grow up to be a vet.

Her favorite books as a child were James
Harriet, all Creatures Great and Small.

And I had two wonderful parents
that were academics that just

you could do or be anything.

So I was a huge tomboy, grew
up in the country, the Midwest

countryside, and loved animals.

And that was kind of the, the gist of it.

I also was the stem girl, so you
found me playing more with technology

or being outside doing the science
experiment projects with, with everyone

as opposed to as my mom's hopes were,
ballet, piano, you know, whatever.

Back in that era.

And again, no, no gender bias one way or
the other, but that was just what, you

know, every parent wants them to grow up
to do something that they can relate to.

My mom and dad.

Grew up on the ranch and the farm, and
that was chores before school, but it

was not something you aspired to be.

And so they always have hopes
for doing more stuff than

what they did from their kids.

And I just grew into that love and
passion of the science and the animals.

So Steven's College was there in
Columbia, Missouri, and it was

kind of a pre, pre-vet discipline.

It also had a really great
liberal arts program.

And as I mentioned, both
my parents were academics.

My dad was a pretty strict dad,
so I was the oldest of three.

And the only girl, so it
was also Steven's College.

Footnote is a girl school.

So, we negotiated that I could have p
e b, all my ac, all my writing and my

animal husbandry work cuz they had a
huge uh, commitment to, to that as kind

of a precursor to go into vet school.

And in exchange, I said, sure, fine.

I don't care.

It's all girls.

That's fine.

I'll get over it.

And actually it was actually one
of the best things I ever did.

If I look back on it now, I, I
mean, the reality is I wanted to

be a vet for the longest time until
a professor pulled me aside and

said, so what's the business plan?

Renee?

Who's vet practice?

Are you gonna inherit?

Who's, you know, where are you gonna,
where is your, your business degree?

Where's the business classes you have?

You have biology and chemistry and pre-vet
all those studies, but where's the other?

And it's like, what?

, I love animals.

Right?

And at some point you realized I
did not have that practice, the

business sense to inherit that
piece of going to be a veterinarian.

And it was a big kind of blind spot.

So it, it's really interesting that
these people come into our lives and,

and interject these kind of statements
that, that in some ways change us.

And so what did that what did that
interruption, I guess I'll call

it by this professor, do to your
thinking where you were going uh,

where did the path lead from there?

Yeah, well he was a veterinarian local vet
who also then taught some science classes.

classes.

And after two years at Stevens, I
realized it probably outgrown a lot of

the amazing liberal arts, humanities
and kinda that well-balanced foundation

that teaches you how to think, not
what to think, as I like to say.

And I also had a complete meltdown
in a biology practicum final

where it was the third time.

It was 1:00 AM I remember
it like it was yesterday.

You had your white lab kodo and
you're trying to do that final, final.

and it just bombed.

And I don't, couldn't even
tell you why it bombed.

And I'm like, oh my God,
what am I doing in this lab?

I love people, I love animals.

Do I have to make a career at being a
veterinarian to achieve all those things?

It was one of those ah, irrational aha
moments you have as in, in college.

And you, you'd say, okay,
it's time to transfer.

And at that point I went to the
complete opposite, I think making

up for the 1300 girls that was
my, my university at the time.

And I transferred to UCLA and
became an economics major.

Economics at ucla.

So what, what was, what was
happening there to make that.

Well, I was a, I had always
wanted to go to California.

We grew up in the Midwest.

Chicago froze to death for many years
and many times we had traveled as a

family to the West Coast and it was
a very big melting pot of thought.

You got the whole spectrum.

You got to kind of play in your own lane.

You made your lane and
then you gotta play in it.

And that was always very um, I.

, Inspiring for me, the Midwest, which
I love, the values I grew up with,

but sometimes they became a little
cookie cutter, like, why not this?

How about this?

And there was a little bit of those values
that felt a little bit stifling for me.

So when I had the chance to transfer,
of course my dad was a big influencer

in that, of where can you transfer?

What do you wanna do?

What, what's missing?

One, go to the west coast or
left coast as he called it,

and two big university campus.

It was 50,000 kids and it was
bigger than some people's cities or

town they grew up in.

So, you do economics and do you
graduate with a degree in economics

or does the evolution continue?

No, no.

Um, I graduated with a degree in
economics, but along the way, you

know, speckled in a little bit.

Coaching and counseling.

The summers were spent there running
their admissions advisory program,

both for students and parents.

It was great.

Every three days you brought in
a new group of either parents

or kids that were accepted in
the UCLA top of their field top.

I think it's top 2% at the time.

I think it's even gotten more strict now.

Who gets accepted into these,
into the university, but it's

also a very liberal arts world.

So you gotta get them not just
to come in and be an engineer.

They're not coming in, you know, as tiger
mom and dads to focus on this thing.

It's much broader than that.

And so I really enjoyed that
component of my education.

It wasn't shown up and on a
degree, but it was just as, as

beneficial as that economics degree.

And when I graduated um, it was onto
the next thing, which is kind of the

way the academics worked at ucla,
which is again, continuing the, the

liberal arts in a little bit of.

You don't have a vocation per se, but
you have a whole lot of curiosity.

What's next?

And for me, I actually joined a
consulting firm, a legal consulting

firm as a business analyst, and that's
kind of where I found my love of

technology and probably before even,
it was cool in hip to say data science

and design thinking, which were really
not even buzz terms back in those days.

and you're doing this in Southern

California,

Yep.

Yeah.

Southern California.

I graduated and then moved to Palo Verde,
California and had, there was a wonderful

little boutique firm there on the hill,
right walking distance from my apartment,

my first apartment, and that's where I
started my career as a research analyst.

Research analyst.

And so, I have looked through
your LinkedIn profile and it's got

some pretty big names on there.

I saw PeopleSoft, Oracle Semantic
seem to be the first three

major companies you work for.

So tell me the, the movement
from the consulting firm over to

PeopleSoft, Oracle, semantic, and
maybe a little bit of your journey

there.

Yeah.

So legal consulting, again, I didn't know
what that was, but it was basically in

the old days of plotting SPSS data and
analytics on old dot matrix printers.

It turned into pie and bar
charts and it was fascinating.

That was the fun part.

But it also had me doing a little
bit of the business and operations of

opening new offices, and that, that
kept me going for a number of years.

And ultimately I realized
that was the stem part, right?

The technology, the math that the
computers helping to fix those old.

Old dot matrix printers in the la Well,
back in those times it was desktops.

But what I didn't have is I didn't
really have the formal training.

So when I said I wanna go do this
next thing, the hipster companies

at this time, you know, the crazy
wacky places were like, PeopleSoft,

you break your pets to work.

It doesn't matter what you wear,
you're traveling all over the world.

It's human capital management software.

And so I applied and um, I also applied
to some of the big, you know, back in

that, those days was the big eight.

And everyone's question was, well, do you
under, do you know PeopleSoft or do you

know, do you know the green screens that
people are converting from two PeopleSoft?

Or do you have a methodology or do
you, there's all these questions.

And I realized I needed to go back.

So I went back as one of the oldest
grad students, I'm sure at the.

And got my master's in information
systems management information systems

at University of Texas, Dallas.

And back in those days, again,
dinosaurs roaming the earth still.

They actually did a lot of their
professors from industry, which

was very novel in those days.

So Texas instruments, executives and
business people and technologists

would come and te teach and lecture.

And so you got a very common
sensical way of versus the

textbooks that were outdated.

Even in those days, a textbook
was outdated by the time you

were reading it in class.

The bond rate of the fax machine you were
reading in this book was, you know, half

as fast as what you know is out there.

I

Right, right.

that dates me a whole lot.

But anyway,

Yeah.

And from once I graduated,
then guess what?

I had my background.

I had the discipline, I had the
language, I had the frameworks,

and I joined PeopleSoft.

okay.

And so, in, into PeopleSoft, you go,
and what do you, what are you doing

Now you've got, you've got methodology,
you've got, you've got a platform to

stand on that, that you now you've
already, you've already got all of these

other basics but now you've added to it.

And so at PeopleSoft, what do you learn?

What do you experience that then takes
you to Oracle, that takes you to semantic?

Give me a little bit of that history in a

nutshell.

Sure.

So PeopleSoft, you, you,

it was the fr feeding frenzy of
they'd hand you spreadsheets and

you got to pick what job you wanted.

It was just such a hot, hot commodity.

It was just spreadsheets
being rotated around.

And I stayed in Texas at the time,
Dallas, but I traveled everywhere.

So for me, I learned the
implementation of Eerp solutions,

whether it be HR and finance.

I did specifically HR and benefits
and benefits administration.

I was kind of the human capital management
consultant, but I traveled everywhere.

You know, bags was always packed.

It was a blast.

But you learned.

as I'd like to say, consultants
help you fill your database and

your brain of, of fact patterns.

That if you were working in a corporate
environment, it would take you years to

accomplish what you do as a consultant.

Traveling and doing the same business
problems, say HR, payroll benefits,

but in different industries, in
different parts of the world.

So I did that for almost well until 2004.

And at that point, very sad is the hostile
takeover or whatever you want to call

it, of the PeopleSoft, Oracle struggle
began, or I think ended at that point.

I think we all have a, a still a
t-shirt with a morning of the death of

PeopleSoft and the hustle takeover Oracle.

And no offense to my Oracle colleagues
and friends, cuz I still have them,

but it was the end of a culture
and so I became an Oracle employee

By, by trans,

by Acqui?

Yeah, by acquisition.

and that's putting it nicely.

And then I stayed there for a
while, but it was in California,

you have to drive across a huge BA
bridge to get from where I lived

to Oracle's corporate headquarters.

There was no work from home
construct at that point.

So it became pretty tiresome, you
know, and I think it probably three,

four hours on a, on in a car certain
days when there's an accident.

And at some point I said, you know,
let's see what else is out there.

I love tech, but how about
something closer to home?

And it went to Symantec and again,
through networking, still technology

cybersecurity in its early days.

And that was right after Symantec and
Veritas had put and pulled together.

So small, small, medium business
consumers meet mega enterprise Veritas.

And so it was a very curious
place to go do technology in it.

but you did that for as l best I
can tell, a almost six years where

you ultimately became CIO or Chief
Information Officer at that company.

So that, that seems to me
a fairly significant rise.

And I mean, I, I, you know, I didn't
pull off the dates exactly, but to me

that's when, that's when Silicon Valley
is starting to really do some cool stuff.

It was, it was it was the.com
and then the dot bomb.

So we rode that out both and I think
probably the part that I really got my,

sunk my teeth in, I ended up being really
second in charge in in it for a while.

So chief of staff are the underling to
the cio, who I knew really well, a great

colleague and friend, and learned how to
do a lot of the operational day-to-day

work, the challenge with the CIO or
a CISO in a company that's in tech.

you have two faces.

You have the marketing hat
you put on to go help sell.

Cuz we're a cybersecurity company, of
course we have resilient cybersecurity

disciplines, practices and software.

And let us tell you about that.

So you tend to have the C-suite be
as much on the road, on the road

doing the roadshow part as you do,
having them stay at home and do the

operational part unique for being
in, in a tech, in the tech sector.

So I got to have a little bit more
freedom or pr responsibility than

probably the normal team of staff.

So I grew into that role quite quickly
because I had a great mentor and I

also had, you know, again, just some,
a little bit of luck in, in support.

So I was there for a while and then at
some point you gotta spread your wings.

And so as the and Silicon Valley
is a bubble, it's a great bubble.

Sometimes it's dysfunctional bubble
depending on who you talk to.

But at some point, as a CIO and I would
say chief innovation Officer, as much

as information officer, I helped start
doing transitions and transformation.

There.

Big transformation during my time there
was to bring Veritas meets Symantec.

So consumers who install Norton
on their, in their cd, on their C

with their CD ROM for the laptop
enterprise storage, you gotta, you

gotta not run two different businesses.

How do you synthesize that?

In a way, there's common processes
and in some cases some processes have

to be rewritten, some are obsolete.

So you kinda learned a little bit about
that trans transformational work as well.

And so, as I said it's time to go do
this somewhere else and not be in Silicon

Valley because a lot of the time is, can
I do this outside of the tech sector?

Because everyone speaks
geek in Silicon Valley.

Everyone speaks geek in the tech sector.

But how about being a good storyteller?

When you go say, To consumer goods or
go to uh, retail or go to medical, you

gotta translate a lot of these really
abstract or complicated constructs to

help them be successful in whatever
they're doing for their business.

But you gotta, you gotta boil it
down and you gotta go over that

proverbial wall to speak the language.

So I joined Sie Johnson as their first,

as their first cio.

They were looking to do transformation.

They, at the time had

Proctor and Gamble eating their lunch and
data and analytics back in those days.

And if you Google all the way back
there, whoever's listening to this

podcast, you'll see they had these
massive rooms, partnership with hp.

They knew about their customers.

It was all data driven and it was amazing.

And all of a sudden, everyone below,
you know, competing in that marketplace,

whether it be Clorox or Estie Johnson
or whoever said, wait, wait, wait.

We need that.

, well wait.

First we need a head of an IT department.

Wait, then we need cyber security.

Wait, so all these prerequisites.

So, SC Johnson really had
their first AHA to say we need

a chief information Officer.

We also want analytics discipline,
and we want cyber security.

So those were like the three
parts of the position as I

was approached to consider it.

And oh, by the way, you gotta
move back to Racine, Wisconsin.

Now.

Luckily I grew up in the Midwest, so I
knew where race racing, Racine racing was.

I ended up moving there, moving to
Milwaukee, which is very close by.

They have no traffic.

So it was pretty easy to get there.

And that was, that was kind of
the first step in what I would

say as my transformation junkie
phase of doing work technology

how did, how did that how did the needing
to translate language now into a non-GE

world, how did that all, did that work?

Did you feel like you, you were able to,
after a while, or did that take you a

while to, to deconstruct this old language
that you had coming outta silicon?

Well, I think I was restless to
always sit in Silicon Valley.

I'm a curious storyteller,
as you can tell.

A little long-winded sometimes.

So for me it was not hard, but
you had to get steeped in context.

Well, let's go back to Midwest.

I grew up there many years ago,
but let's understand what the

culture of a private CPG company
that's punching above their weight

Right.

like, thinks like.

And so I literally, the f probably
had magic markers, the kind that smell

really good when you sniff 'em, right?

The kids magic markers and, and, and
doodle paper in my backpack or my

briefcase at all times to try and.

Visual stories of, well, this is what
attached to detached detached storage is,

this is why you want detached storage,
cuz you all are creating all this data

and let's show you what that means
if you, so you, I mean, that's, those

were my tools as much as it was putting
together an RFP to potentially look

at a vendor to help me do some of it.

You had to get the buy-in
from the business first.

Mm.

Yeah.

that part.

Actually, that was
probably the funnest part.

The geek speak stuff is necessary.

You gotta come up and know how to
build the data center and crimp cables

and be an M C S E and all of that.

So you can call BS on people,
you know, if they're full of it.

But that's not really
where my passion lied.

So I really enjoyed that part.

So, se Johnson you take on this role.

You the initial role there.

You grow it, you develop there, and where
do you get to the place that you go?

Mm.

Okay.

I've got my lesson here.

What's the next lesson?

That seems to be your style.

It's like you get, I don't know if you
get bored or you just want a bigger

challenge.

I don't get bored, but I grew up, if you
remember early in my story was I left

the Midwest because it was very much
cookie cutter and I loved Midwest and

all the, you move into a neighborhood
and someone who brings you a casserole

to your front door and say, welcome.

That's

right.

It was freezing cold
the years I was there.

It was supposed to be a
five year plan in my head.

The polar vortex hit year three, which
is minus 65 degree windshield factor.

right?

Children were not allowed to
stand outside and wait for their

bus, nothing, and it was just so
bitter cold and I had forgotten.

As a child, you stay inside a lot
of the time and at that point I'd

already bought a place in Hawaii.

So I love the outdoors.

I love paddled standup, paddle boarding.

The sun was my, just my out outdoors and
the sun was just something that I needed.

Stay upbeat and be happy, and
there's a lot of science behind that.

And all of a sudden you really
were depressed in the middle of

the winters there, and you're
told, don't wear sunscreen.

Take more vitamin D, get
yourself through this stuff.

And after about the year
three, I'm like, I can't.

Hmm.

It's fun work, but work
is not your whole world.

And I actually built a good
succession plan, so that was part

of the, always part of the dna.

So I had somebody to hand the keys to.

And about that time I started looking back
on the West coast and found Hitachi, which

was at the time, going through, again, a
transformation from Hitachi Data Systems,

which is a, as we all know, they sold
storage and still do under a new moniker.

But HDS was the resilient.

Every CIO had it in their data
center for their high-end systems

built in Japan, engineered.

Just rock solid.

So hds, as we watched the declining
market or commoditization of storage

needed to do a smart pivot themselves,
reinvent themselves, and the IT

department at the time had I think
four to five generations of IT people.

It was a very Japanese mindset of,
you come, you work one place for

your entire life and there's nothing
wrong with that as long as you

continue to reinvent them yourself.

And it didn't seem like
that was happening.

So they were looking for an outsider
to come in and help revalidate

the IT department and, and kind
of do a smart pivot on it to prep

it for what was gonna be a bigger
rebranding of the whole company.

And I've never been through one of
those, so I thought that would be fun.

Wow.

So Hitachi Data Systems HDS is now known
as Hitachi Ventura, and the first three

years was getting your own house in.

getting everybody, not just working
in Silicon Valley from the dot

bomb era where it was cheap to
hire people, data scientists,

whoever all in your neighborhood.

You had to go to a, you know, a
managed services or an employee

base leveraging the global model.

And I'm a big design thinker.

Diversity of thought, help
solve the problems best, right?

That's, that's, that's in my dna.

It runs through my blood.

And so we really spent the first three
years really finding the diversity of

a global fall, the sun model for an IT
department who was gonna get ready for

this ridiculous journey of, you know,
we're gonna transform the entire company

and speak a new language and we're gonna
be outcomes based and we're selling

solutions and services, not just hardware.

And it, you gotta know how
to speak that language first.

So three years of that, and then
about two and a half years, Once

we did the, well, going through the
transformation that really went to

Japan, we went all the way to Japan with
this and explained what we were doing.

We had to create a transformational
blueprint since Hitachi Limited, which

was what Hitachi Van Tara belonged to at
the time, was one of 900 subsidiaries,

Wow.

about a hundred billion entity in Japan.

And pri you know, we were
all a J Japan subsidiary.

So in the US you probably didn't
know about 'em, but you know, they,

they traded on the Neke in Japan.

And that was the interesting part for me.

No longer Silicon Valley, while I did
move back to San Jose, Santa Clara,

the culture, the context was Japanese.

I'm like, okay, let's go do this.

We figured out about CPG or a non-tech.

Let's go figure out global cuz country,
country culture trumps whatever they say.

Culture, you know, eats a strategy
for lunch, as Carter would say.

And so let's go learn about that because
there's other ways to solve business

problems besides the way Silicon
Valley or corporate America does.

And so that was my journey personally.

It was amazing.

I learned a lot of patience and tradition
and we uh, set uh, Hitachi Venter up for

success with a shared services model that
the other subsidiaries could consume if

they didn't have the scale or breadth or
depth of what HDS had as a subsidiary for

running an IT department from scratch.

Hmm.

Wow.

What a journey.

So, you do that whole thing and then
you jump from industry into advisory,

into consulting, into being a mentor.

And, and I notice in your, your
profile that, I mean, all of a

sudden you go from that world of
industry deeply embedded in leading

change, leading major transformation.

And and now you're in this different
world where you're doing your own thing.

So what drove that transition
Now, what, what caused you to

go from industry into a advisor?

Give me

that

Well, there's two.

There's two, probably two things.

One was an internal, again,
aha moment of Hitachi.

Had a great philosophy
when you spoke about.

what you did and why you do it.

At that time it was a double bottom line.

Now they say triple, but at the
time it was double bottom line.

So it's not just important to do this
for the company that you work for and

make a good profit for the shareholders,
but you have to, it has to be beneficial

to the rest of the world as well.

And so the more I spoke and I did a
lot of keynote, I was asked to be, we

op, we started our our erg formalized
a lot more of our uh, ERG ERG groups.

And I was asked to be the ERG
executive for the people of color.

And then I also was asked to be to
lead the Women of Hitachi event.

Yeah, for the US, for the Americas, you
can kind of see the pull in the pay it.

do more.

And it was in me.

But when you start to say it, I'm like,
yeah, that's the way it should be.

Is that not how it really works?

So it was kind of this aha moment for me.

I grew up as a kid with my
parents didn't care if I wore

a skirt or pants or whatever.

I wanted to be auto mechanic one
day pianist, the next whatever.

It didn't matter.

And it would never occur to
me that I couldn't do that.

But in my years with Hitachi, it did
occur to me that not everybody has

that gift, that privilege, growing

Yeah.

And so, part of me just said, okay,
how do you start to pay it forward?

And that was the aha.

Internally about that time.

It's rounding out 2019, starting
2020, this evil thing called

Covid started to pop up.

And I happened to be in Hawaii
trying not to move to Tokyo, but

closer to Tokyo since a lot more
of my work was stationed there.

. And then it was time to make a call.

And it's one of those,
I had a succession plan.

I had an amazing successor
that he was ready to take.

He was more than ready and five and a half
years, you know what, CIO stays too long.

One place, you know?

Yeah.

Grass grows under weeds, grow around
your feet and you get a, you get, he'll

ask you, why did you stay so long?

Because technology is always
evolving and the revolving front

door is how you benefit from that.

So he took over and graciously I
continued to be able to do some work.

And good news is I got to do it from here
and do a lot more of the pay it forward.

So I had about six or nine months
where I'm like, you know what?

I say I'm gonna do these things.

And so you see a lot of my um, my CV
has a lot of the foundational work or

the nonprofit work during that time.

Both here on the Hawaiian Islands
as well as over in Europe.

And I just kind of paid it forward.

Well, I sorted out what is next.

Right.

into the wonderful thing called Advisory
Board Center as I was looking at really

fact patterns between coaching individual
young women in STEM and steam to being

an advisor for a startup after-school
STEM program in London where something

was abolished because of Covid.

There was not enough momentum,
but these kids are now, they

have nothing to do after school.

And it's a single parent in, you
know, single parent situation.

to some work I was doing in,
in other parts of Asia Pacific.

Random stuff, but there
was still a common thing.

One, I didn't have decision rights.

I was advising I was a storyteller.

My words were, have you thought
about, what do you think

about, what do you wanna do?

What's your strategy?

There was common fact patterns of what was
coming outta my mouth and how I said it.

. I said, you know, there has
to be a framework for this.

Although normally you'd go to your, you
know, your pa, you know, your PMP or

your whatever framework methodologies
did corporate America, but those

don't work because you owned it.

You were the accountable person driving
the project, driving the budget.

This was different.

And I just, again, it's one of
those, I'm on Zoom or I'm on my

computer every single day, ever,
as everyone else was during covid.

And I found through an article, I
think it was, it was like Advisory

board center, it's decision rights.

Stay with the, with the entity.

You are an advisor.

You're passionate, you're
committed, you wanna see them be

successful, however, and join us.

And you have this framework that
we give you that supports that.

It has flexibility, but it has
enough girth and belts and suspenders

to be able to use and reuse it.

So that's, that connects me.

Okay.

So you've got this, you've got this
connection, you've got this looking

out at steam and STEM and potential
coaching and some, some for-profit,

not-for-profit advisory opportunities.

Had you employed or used or sponsored
advisory boards in this history through

Hitachi Von Tara, SIE Johnson, were you
engaging advisory boards at that point,

or, or more formal advisory structures?

I think I fell into the, the bucket
of, and again, advisory boards have

different, you know, it could be project
and pop-up based, it can be coaching

and mentoring, a little more informal.

So what I had been doing for years
is doing the, in the informal part.

So I still have young women and
colleagues that we do coaching

and advisory work on, and it was a
framework, but let's not be so luci

goosey when you have free time, call me.

That's not gonna work.

So you kind of look for the same thing.

So my growth into the
advisory world became, , that

portfolio part of your career.

So I have a lot of colleagues or
entities, you know, relationships

that want that from me.

And a lot of it in the US
again, US is a, a, a, it's a

big, it's a big animal, right?

How do you, you know, how do you tackle
that big elephant one bite at a time?

And for me it was through the nonprofit
part and from the individual tri part.

Right.

Okay.

So as you are as you are emerging in
this space, and as you're growing in

this, and you've already got all of
these existing structures that you're in,

your in terms of ad advice, coach, those
kind of things, what are you personally

seeing in the marketplace based on your
unique history and perspective that is

amplifying the need for advisory boards?

What are you seeing from that perspective?

Well, so one of the things, I think
we said it early, so I mean, look

at, you know, look at the current
dilemmas, should I say the banking

industries we have here, Silicon
Valley Bank, first Republic signature.

And if you read again, there's no
best that I can ta say, I don't

think there's an answer yet.

But the question is what happened?

Like where was the various
perspectives, right?

The diversity of thought that said
have a oh crap moment before, oh, crap

moment hit around the world, right?

And what I see that was missing or
potentially may be missing, we'll

see in the coming days is what you've
kind of seen and a few companies

through Covid, whether it be Adobe
or you have Salesforce, you have Aon.

They said, oh my God, we're in Covid.

How do we grow now?

Or how do we smart pivot?

And it's not pause, take a time out.

Let's go find a event.

Let's go do a RFP for the best
consulting firm on the planet.

They assembled what we now
know as an advisory board.

, it's independence.

And I would say that the, the
probably, you know, in their case

they probably corporatized it.

But really the piece that was the aha,
and there's great research case studies

on all of those out there, is that they
had an independent thinking entity,

potentially, probably at first it was
a board, you know, a board member.

But they grew from that to say,
okay, we don't know everything.

And for me, I've always said, if
you're the smartest person in the

room, you're in the wrong room.

And if you're small or big company and
you're the C-suite executives, you gotta

check the ego and say, I don't know
everything I got here because I surrounded

myself with smarter people than me.

This is kind of, I think where the
advisory board really shows up in a

way that has framework to the extent,
you know, it has to be, you know,

it has to be flexible framework.

You can't show up with a, you
know, this is how you do a project.

. But I would say the most
important characteristic is

emotional and independence.

And that's what you show up for
in being an advisory board chair

or a subject matter expert.

I kind of wear both hats.

So when I joined the advisory board
program and I went through the

certification to learn about both the
frameworks and then also be a chair, and

I was, I think the first or second outside
of Asia Pacific, it's headquartered

in Brisbane, Australia, but is really
quartered the market in AsiaPac.

But coming into the US I think I was
number two or number three, you had

to be a chair and you had to be know
the, the technical SM expertise.

So I learned both at the same time,
which I thought was really invaluable,

but it resonated with two things.

One, you don't have the decision rights,
you're not a fiduciary, you're not a

governance board who sits up there.

That's, you know, has risk and,
and we're seeing in the marketplace

these days, not only risk, but.

They're put being put in really
tough situations from a, from a

legal perspective of not, were
they watching the cookie jar?

Were they doing what they should
have been doing as a fiduciary?

That's not what advisory boards are.

And matter of fact, advisory boards can
actually help the governance board with,

they help the C-suite independent.

Have you thought about and aren't
shy about asking the curious,

tough questions, which is me?

I'm the curious question.

Question.

Have you thought about why do you do this?

What's the strategy?

You don't have one.

You want me to do it?

Hmm.

Yeah.

So that tends to be where it, I just fell
into that niche and I really like it.

Yeah.

So, you, you talked a lot
about emotional independence.

How do you, how do you, as a
advisor, as a chair of advisory

boards, how do you grow that skill?

is that just inherent in you or is
there a skill that you are working

on in order to make sure that that is
always a stable part of what you do?

You know, I think it's, it's an
internal integrity, ethics things with

yourself, because in the US again,
I've, I've now been with advisory

board center programs and I'm now
the co America's community chair.

So I've seen how it operates globally.

I think the challenge here in the
US is it's hard not to say, oh, let

me advise you and I got this buddy.

My uncle has his consulting firm,
and you have to kind of stay

in your lane to do that work.

Back to, if you have intellectual
independence, you know, you want to

see this companies be successful.

You, you want them to stand
on their own two feet.

They, again, a lot more, I'm doing
a lot more with the startup and

the, the SMB market these days.

You wanna see them grow and be successful
and you're emotionally committed to them.

You're emotionally and
independently committed to them.

And I think that becomes
kinda who you are.

And there've been times like, well,
Renee, can you tell me a consulting firm?

Or Could you come be this?

Well, I said, if, if I did
that, I'd have to step out of

this lane and go do that lane.

most of the time I don't, I don't
like to do that on the same account.

I can do the consulting work and I
like doing that from time to time.

But they have to kind of be
back to that portfolio career.

You have to have it all together, but you
gotta keep your lanes pretty clean, in

Clean.

Right.

And so part of what you're saying
there is, is understanding how to,

how to manage your own boundaries.

Like it's, it's being really
clear on what your own boundaries

are.

They are.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's

good.

Well, and you listen to your, your own
mouth, what comes outta your mouth, right?

You're trying to put, you
know, two ears, one mouth.

When you speak it are you li listen
to yourself and say, are you telling.

or are you advising?

Are you being curious
or are you dictating?

Because ultimately it's not your
decision and get your ego back in check.

The flip side is you wanna make
sure that they don't have an

optimistic, optimistic bias, which
there's lots of research for that.

Companies SeeSuite executives,
we don't need this.

We're highly optimistic.

We have an op optimistic bias
towards, we'll figure this out.

And your job is to help course
correct that for them, not for you.

right.

Yes.

And yet that comes from both an
understanding of your present

role, but also the deep knowledge
you bring from your history.

I, I'm guessing that in a lot of the
situations you show up in, even though

they're dramatically different kinds
of business, you bring all of that

experience from SC Johnson, Hitachi
Ventura all the way back through even

the early consulting firm that you

worked

in.

Yep.

So the consulting is great because as
I said, it fills your database of your

brain and now your brain and artificial
intended intelligence and generative

AI and all the rest go with that.

It gives you a reminder, there's
multiple ways to solve the same problem.

And you know, in some cases it sometimes
you get in these Coke versus Pepsi

Wars of which e r P system's the best.

Hmm.

I don't, I really never cared.

I cared about what the company
cared about, but I don't care.

They all get to the same
place within reason.

I'm sure I'm gonna get a whole
bunch of nasty emails on that.

But in general, all they do and
that kind of become, becomes my

platform, all they do is store data.

The lifeblood of all of these
companies is what's the data back

to my original out of university?

What's the data telling us?

What can we mind as renewable resource?

And so that's what you're
trying to help them do.

So yes, the technology part brings
a whole lot of that to the table.

My years of experience is why
you are in your, an advisors

come in, invited to the party.

You're either a SME or you have a good
governance as a chair to know how to run

that flexible but pragmatic framework to
hold everyone to account as an advisor.

And so the coaching and mentoring
component, you know, those, those

non sharp elbow skills, right?

They used to call 'em
soft skills, which I hate.

It's, I would say their leadership skills
to have that conversation without you

being the smartest person in the room
or you're not standing in the limelight.

That's, in my world, that's not
really what gets me excited.

It's like watching those
other, other opportunities

for others to, to, to prosper.

So what else have you seen in terms of
what's working right now, best practice?

I know you talked about frameworks
and the flexibility of that.

But are, are there any other things
that you've experienced directly

that are indicators of what
works versus what doesn't work?

Is there best practice versus
practice that, that is inherently

flawed?

you know, it's hard to say best practice
cuz it's such, it's so context specific.

But what I would say when, you know,
the the executives are saying we're

missing something, and again, the
covid situation was a great one.

Like, wait, how do we grow now?

Really?

Oh my God.

It's like night and day.

And I'll tell a great CIO story, CIO
story from an from a academic institution

and he's, he's like, well, no one will
say thank you to c o during C O V D.

If I brought.

A million dollar project, which
is typically what CIOs tend to

have, is they're the size of their
investments in the portfolio.

He goes, never in a time except
during Covid, could I bring a

million dollar project and say I
will get it done in 30 days or less.

And it flies through the approval process.

So all of a sudden what's
impossible becomes possible.

And I think what's happened as a
result of that is people are like,

yeah, but what made that, that way?

Like, well, we know we were missing
something and we couldn't wait to do it.

The fast, the slow way supply
chain, da da da RFP picked the best

bid eight months later, maybe we
implement it, we gotta go quick.

And I think with that is
kind of the, the backdrop.

We've all learned that,
wait, something's missing.

How do we go grab it fast?

And react is kind of how the
advisory board framework is set up.

We know we're missing something.

Well, , we know other companies have
solved this, but who do we have around the

table that knows that or maybe could bring
a diverse perspective or poke the bear a

little bit to make us think differently.

I think that's what's the best
practice of this is like, aha,

we know something's missing.

And then the second question really
early on is you say, is it missing for

continuum or for a finite amount of time?

And that kind of sets up, is it a
project-based advisory board member

or sme or are we really needing
another voice of reason or sounding

board that isn't our governance
board with fiduciary responsibility?

It isn't the C-suite that
we've all grown together for

the last 25 years or whatever.

That becomes, I think,
probably best practice.

Beyond that kind of comes
back to what I said.

having a blank sheet of papers.

Your framework is no good cuz you wander
the, yeah, you wander the desert aimlessly

a little bit, but you need flexibility in
what the frameworks are and that's where

kind of the advisory board center really
resonated for me with some of the basics.

The foundation, ABCs, I use it even
outside of advisory board work,

just as a kind of a checkpoint
on some very simple templates and

very simple, are you doing this?

Have you thought about this?

When's the last time you did this?

Kind of those little reminder
things like virtual yellow stickies.

Right.

No, that's so good.

So, let's, let's imagine that there
is a A young woman who started a sass

business of some kind or another,
and she's grown it, and, and all of a

sudden she, she's got this business into
sort of a hyper loop and it's flying.

And she's looking for some, some
kind of structure around her.

What advice would you give her on initial
steps in setting up a advisory board?

Considering it, how, how
might she go about that?

Well, I think step one is would
be to ask those questions.

So, what's your business?

What's your strategy?

What's, where are the pieces
that made you wanna do this?

What's your story and how
are you invested in it?

Because all of those questions
need to, they may not be perfect

answers, but they need to have been
written, documented, and somewhat.

institutionalized, rightly or wrongly.

And then coming back to that saying,
because of what I've written down or

what I've, what I have as my framework,
I know something's not working, so I

need help making the strategy grow.

Or maybe why is it not working?

Why is this business stalled?

Or why?

If you don't have that as your starting
point, and sometimes you don't peop

you, you have those conversations
informally as a, as a mentor or a

coach, like, well, I don't know.

What do you think my strategy should be?

Then that becomes that aha moment
to say, mm, you gotta go back.

That's a, have a conversation
in the mirror with yourself.

What, what got you into doing this job?

And I do a

Mm.

coaching of coding, you know, coding
competitions or science technology

competitions here on the islands.

And one of the first things I say is
when you're trying to do your pitch,

you know, you do all this research
for six, nine months as a key bunch

of kids lab, amazing brilliance zone.

In this case it was for um, Recycling
here on the island, but you got

five minutes to impress the judges.

Why did you pick this thing?

Tell your story.

And it's the super hard part cuz it's
kind of, no one else can do it and the

kids do a great job of it, but it's the
same question I'd ask that young woman,

like, how did you get involved in this?

Why are, why is this
like fire in your belly?

And then I probably the other
thing I would do is we have some

great research out on the advisory
board center for women's startups.

Especially for women.

There's some personas or patterns
that happen that there's a couple good

articles out there that I'd suggest
them also read to say, Hey, suggest

that she read, Hey, take a read of this.

There's others that have gone before you.

It doesn't matter where in the
world, but they're doing the same

kind of soul, soul searching.

Take a read of this as well, and this
is again, suggestion, not homework

assignment, but see what happens.

Do they go actually read the article?

or they just come back and say, no,
no, no, I just need a quick fix.

right, right.

Which is a, which is a really
important indicator in terms

of where they go from there.

That's right.

That's right.

And then the good news is then there's
a starter pack and you can sit around,

you can help them revalidate the
charter you know, revalidate their

words and, and engage with them.

But it kind of helps set the tone
in that, that, you know, there's

a line there that you don't cross
as an advisory board member.

And so this is a good exercise to help
them understand why you might push back in

certain ways if you then say, okay, this
sounds like an advisory board opportunity,

and I'd be delighted to be invested
with you to help you be successful.

Right, right.

Wonderful.

So, any, any final thoughts on on
what you've learned over your history

through the last number of years
related to advisory boards in terms

of, of insights, lessons learned
already in the, in the process?

Is there anything else that you missed
saying that you feel like would be

helpful?

You know, I'm looking at my notes cause
it was kinda like, oh, what, what else?

What else, what else, what else?

I think it's not so much missing
it is to not confuse it cuz I, you

know, I, and I think in the US we, we
struggle a little bit with Oh yeah.

Board advisory board.

Like a governance board.

No, no, no.

There's corporatized advisory boards.

But again, are you telling
or are you advising?

Do you have fiduciary
responsibilities or not?

And I think.

Increasingly now, I would say
the trend is, would be how

I'd leave this more than ever.

We are in a world of more
exposure to the unknown unknowns.

Right.

The, no, sorry, the known unknowns.

So we know there's something coming.

We don't know what it is, just like
we're telling our kids go to university

for a job that hasn't been invented yet.

Right.

But how do you, how do you deal with that?

Well, I think advisory boards are
now finding their sweet spot and

they have around the globe a lot
more, I think, than here in the us.

I think there's some great business
cases for it Aon and, and Salesforce,

but you don't have to be that big or
Adobe to, to do that type of work.

Financial Times, I think, had a
great article on the, the, the

time is now for advisory board
work because of the known unknowns.

You have to do it quickly, right.

And I think Covid taught us all that
we can smart pivot quickly under

certain, you know, diamonds are created.

through pressure, right?

You, you create that, you do that,
although not quickly, but your, we

need to figure out how to do that.

And I think advisory boards are
where that kind of starts to show up,

would be my final thoughts on that.

Wonderful.

Well, thank.

Stay tuned.

Well, let me uh, as, as we complete
and conclude thank you for all

your amazing insight today and
your perspective and your story.

I think your story is, is testament
to a process that unfolds that,

that then can be brought to so
many other people and companies.

But as we conclude, I, I kind of
like to ask some more fun personal

questions just for the sheer joy of it.

So, and specifically because you are a you
are formally a C I O and it person, a STEM

person, I love these questions even more.

So first question, PC or Mac.

I am a.

I was a, a wintel for many, many,
many years and I think the, you know,

again, steam turns to stems, turns
to steam at some point in my world

and in a lot of people's worlds,
especially young girls, the A is arts.

So that's that creative
component, it's missing.

And so when I kind of did a little bit
of a pivot on that, I also, you know,

old dog new tricks, taught myself how
to be a Mac user and really enjoy it.

Good current book on your night table.

What's the current book that you're

reading?

Gosh,

If you're

reading

Wendy?

no, I uh, you know, uh, I
listened to I listened to Audible.

I'm a terrible reader.

Reader cuz I'm on reading all day.

So I'm actually rereading a great book.

It's a historical fiction.

It's called and it's back to the era of.

, you know, an era pretech.

It's back when father Damien and the
whole outbreak of what's hand, you know,

Hansen's disease is what's called now.

But Uh, But it's, it's about uh,
it's, it's in a time where no

electricity, no whatever, and you
had the outbreak of Hanson's disease

on, on Oahu and everyone else.

It was a quote, a plague.

And people were literally relegated
to this island of Malaka and,

and how they grew and how they
affirmed their who they are.

And there's, from a perspective of a young
woman, Rachel, who was I think 12 leprosy.

There you go, leprosy, when she, you know,
everyone suspected, everyone has leprosy.

Dump them in the, the water
and make 'em go to Muai.

So it was good.

It's a good.

counterbalance, lots of visualization,
a lot of historic history.

That's correct.

With Fictitional characters.

So

lovely.

What's your favorite web or phone
app that gives you the best ROI?

Time Buddy

Time, buddy.

And, and for what reason?

What's that do

for

you?

Oh, so I am here in Hawaii and
I don't sup, you know, Hawaii

doesn't do daylight savings times.

So in and of itself, you gotta remember,
Ireland, uk, Australia, da da da da da.

In India, you're up 12 and a
half hours depending on what

country, what city you're in.

You know, you're half an hour.

So that's one of those.

I can line 'em all up and
say, I need a meeting here.

Oh look, okay, I got it.

And then I take a snapshot of it and send
it to my colleagues and say, here you go.

Here's the window where all can meet.

And it's the most productive app ever.

In

terms of, of

love it.

And that's on your phone or

on

your

Call my phone.

Super easy.

It's a mobile app.

Yeah.

On my, oh, go ahead.

No, delightful.

I just, that's, that's one
that I, I am not aware of.

I use one called Time Meeting
Planner, I think it is.

And it, you just put in the different
cities and it gives you the, the

different options available to you.

But that, that sounds really
cool cuz I don't have that on my.

Yeah, it works.

And it, and, and for should I be
drinking a beer or should I be having

a coffee when I call my friends?

So there's, again, through, you know, I
did that through COVID as well, trying

to stay connected with everybody.

Cause that worked socially
as well as for work.

So what was the first question you asked?

Chat, G p

T.

Well, since I am now more of
a C D A O, I'm a C reformed

cio and now more of a C D A O.

So Chief Data and analytics officer is
kind of where I play in the space of.

. I wanted to understand her limits
because she only is a smart, she's,

she gets not as smart after 2021.

So I asked her to do, you
know, some really crazy stuff

and see what her response was.

And one of 'em was, I'm running for the
board of an HOA meeting or HOA and in my,

in my neighborhood, what might be a good
stump speech that's five minutes long.

And, and they knew I was in Hawaii.

I mean, you had to just
see how they all picked up.

And then the other one is, I
rephrased the question a couple

times to see how it, how it.

how it did that.

That's so cool.

That's great.

And final

For that really quick chat, t p
t used correctly with data ethics

applied, makes humans be more human.

It is not gonna take over our brains
and it's not gonna do our work for us.

Yeah.

Well, and I think your perspective on
that is, is particularly interesting.

So, I think that's a helpful perspective.

So the final question, and, and you
may have alluded to this already,

but what is something outside of
your professional life that you're

irrationally passionate about?

Cooking.

Cooking or watching.

Yeah.

Food Network.

You know, I, I literally have
my Food Network app on my phone.

I'll watch it on the weekends and
download a recipe, whether it's

Jeffrey Zarian or guy Fi, or whoever
Rachel Ray, while I'm watching Quick.

I'm like, I'm doing that one.

So I have a very, very robust
network of recipes on my phone.

That then become a lot of what I do
through, especially through Covid to cook.

And our neighborhood
is a bunch of farmers.

So we pretended as if we had to all
work off grid one day a week and

we'd say, okay, what do you got?

What do you got?

Oh, you got basil?

I can do pesto.

You got this.

So for me, it, it is a mindful
moment to be in the kitchen and

being creative with recipes and,
and cooking of all of all types.

Japanese, German, you name it, I cook it.

Renee, this has been an absolute delight.

Thank you for your perspective.

Thank you for sharing it all, and it's
been a real pleasure to have you on

the

show.

Hey, so Tom, thank you so much.

This was a lot of fun.

Super easy.

Enjoy your day.

Aloha.